LT1 & a gear drive??

Chevy Mobbin · #1 12-08-03, 00:46

Can it be done? Can I buy a vette motor with the LT1 intake and put a gear drive in it? Aren't the blocks the same from say a 80s 350 to the early 90s 350? I just want to make sure...thanks!

***9C1LT195*** · #2 12-08-03, 09:10

Physically it can be done. The timing cover would have to be clearanced.

The problem is the knock sensors will pick up the noise as knock and retard the timing. You can program the timing retard out but it will make the whole knock/esc system useless.

Chevy Mobbin · #3 12-08-03, 11:14

Ok...I see. Man, I would love to have the power of the vette motor but I want the whine of the gear drive real bad. Does anyone know how hard it is to program the knock sensor to not affect the preformance of the engine?

Thanks for the input.

***9C1LT195*** · #4 12-08-03, 11:43

Since you have a pre-LT1 motor, you'll need to get a custom chip from FastChip or PCMFORLESS.

*Ree9c1* · #5 12-08-03, 13:54

Chevy Mobbin you gotta post some pics of your ride, nice paint job its looks like you're on spinners?

Chevy Mobbin · #6 12-08-03, 19:12

Quote:

Originally posted by 9C1LT195
Since you have a pre-LT1 motor, you'll need to get a custom chip from FastChip or PCMFORLESS.

Actually the vette motor will be for my 64 impala. So I am still up in the air on which year range motor to shoot for. I like the style of the TPI intakes...but would not be opposed to a LT4 intake. Its gotta look good AND preform well. I will keep this post alive as I come across more questions. Thanks.

And Ree9c1---no spinners

Just 20 inch wires..candy powdercoated blue.

Going to paint my caprice blue after the sixtyfour is done.

Chevy Mobbin · #7 12-09-03, 00:20

New question. All the water pumps I see are electric. Can I change that out with a mechanical? I keep reading that after a certain year the flow of coolant changes and runs through the head first......does this affect the water pump application from a regular 350 block?

***9C1LT195*** · #8 12-09-03, 09:35

LT1 and LT4 engines (93-97) have reverse cooling as well as a camshaft driven waterpump. A lot of people replace it with a electric one to free hp at higher rpms.

LT1 uses a special timing chain kit that includes a shaft which rotates the waterpump as well as a timing cover with a hole and a seal for the shaft. You can probably use a regular, belt driven waterpump from a small block with an LT1 engine. You would need to make custom brackets for it.

If I had an older (60-70's) Chevy, I would just put a big block into it. It would be a lot easier than trying to adapt LT1/LT4 and produce more power.

*maximus* · #9 12-09-03, 10:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Chevy Mobbin
New question. All the water pumps I see are electric. Can I change that out with a mechanical? I keep reading that after a certain year the flow of coolant changes and runs through the head first......does this affect the water pump application from a regular 350 block?

Okay, I'm gonna put my two cents in. I have heard the terms "electric water pump" and "mechanical water pump" used frequently. Wether the pump is driven by an electric motor or the crankshaft, a belt..whatever, it's still MECHANICAL! In theory any object with one or more moving part would be considered to be a mechanical device. So any and all waterpumps ever made, and any type of pump period for that matter is mechanical. Okay sorry, I know this doesn't really pertain to the subject matter of this thread, but it was itching me like a dingleberry.

**Incitatus** · #10 12-09-03, 11:13

Maximus, electric or mechanical refers to how it is DRIVEN, not what happens afterward...

***9C1LT195*** · #11 12-09-03, 21:07

I 100% agree with Incitatus.

An electric waterpump uses a brushed dc motor, while a mechanical watermpump is driven by a mechanical part of the engine.

Do you consider your microwave mechanical because it has mechanical parts that rotate the plate? :eh:

Chevy Mobbin · #12 12-09-03, 21:11

Ok.......I have seen some pictures with the water pumps off....and have seen the hole in the timing chain cover. I was wonder what that was for. Sounds like I need to see one hands on to see that deal is. I thought all the motors with the smooth looking water pump were electric....guess I was wrong. hmmm

It seems its going to be more of a struggle to get the gear drive and old style pump on the vette motor.

And I'm not trying to go for just power. This car is going to have hydraulics and the front end needs to be lighter for hopping...and still have good power to pull the heavy reinforced frame and batteries/pumps in the trunk.

*maximus* · #13 12-09-03, 23:25

Quote:

Originally posted by 9C1LT195
I 100% agree with Incitatus.

An electric waterpump uses a brushed dc motor, while a mechanical watermpump is driven by a mechanical part of the engine.

Do you consider your microwave mechanical because it has mechanical parts that rotate the plate? :eh:

Yes, the electric water pump is mechanical. The electric motor produces mechanical energy, which is a force, to turn the pump over. yes the microwave would technically be a mechaincal device also. There is a motor in there turning the plate. That is mechanical energy. In fact, the only purpose of an electric motor is to convert electrical energy into mechanical energy. Look in any high school physics book. I know what the terms "electric water pump" and "mechanical water pump" mean. I was only saying that the electric one does in fact have mechanical properties about it .

***9C1LT195*** · #14 12-09-03, 23:35

Quote:

Originally posted by maximus
The electric motor produces mechanical energy,

You are confused about the definitions of electric and electronic.

Electric motors usually rotate mechanical (or should I say physical) parts. The key point is they use current to do it. That is the whole point of electric devices/tools.

**Incitatus** · #15 12-10-03, 09:36

Quote:

I know this doesn't really pertain to the subject matter of this thread

I suppose you are technically correct, Maximus, but let's not get bogged down in minutia.
We can pick up the science debate in the Off Topic area.

9C1LT195,
Are you saying that a gear drive is possible, but not practical?
I've heard a lot of good things regarding the responsiveness of a gear driven engine and I wouldn't mind converting my engine (or any subsequent engine) to a gear drive if I thought it could be done without giving myself one headache after another.

***9C1LT195*** · #16 12-10-03, 09:43

It's possible but you'll have to convert to an electric waterpump and desensitize the knock sensors. Otherwise the knock sensors will pick up the noise and significantly reduce the timing.

Personally, I would not mess with knock sensors.

**Incitatus** · #17 12-10-03, 10:00

From what I understand, some of these "newer" double and triple timing chains eliminate as much cam lag as a gear.
So, with the exception of the gear whine that the man wanted, I'm guessing that a high-performance gear set and chain would be the way to go.

***9C1LT195*** · #18 12-10-03, 10:06

I use Cloyes double roller. It has almost no slack unlike the GM chains. You will still need to use an electric waterpump since the waterpump gear won't work with aftermarket timing chains.

*12SEC SS* · #19 12-10-03, 15:00

I was so surprised when I saw how much slack was in a brand new LT1 timing set that I bought...im also running Cloyes, but yesterday browsing through the new summit catalog, i saw Lunati LT1 timing set, and it looked like a double chain in the picture...it was labeled NEW, so it must have been recently developed.

**Incitatus** · #20 12-10-03, 15:52

I wish someone would develop an auto-tensioner for that chain.
I guess they couldn't because it would either advance or retard the valve timing as it started taking up the slack (depending on which side it was mounted).
Well, I wonder if dual tensioners would work. Has anyone ever heard of anything like this?: